Comments on: Justice, of a Kind, For MH17

By: Brian Richard Allen

Brian Richard Allen — Tue, 24 Jan 2023 05:57:23 +0000

+Rod says: …. the Russians were stupid not to have confessed instantly, explaining their criminal negligence. Instead the Kremlin launched a silly campaign of ever more bizarre denials …..

Bizarre, indeed. Somewhat similar to the works of fiction issued by France’s Bureau d’Enquêtes et d’Analyses pour la sécurité de l’aviation civile. (BEA)

By: Brian Richard Allen

Brian Richard Allen — Tue, 24 Jan 2023 05:44:27 +0000

….. Ask a pilot about MH17 and you’re liable to get a blank stare. “Which one was that?”

….. Is that a symptom of our diminished attention spans, or something else ….?

It’s mostly “something else.”

The Flight Number was/is just that. The (in this instance) atrocity was perpetrated against an actual aircraft: a Boeing B-777-200ER, registered M9-MRD — and its passengers and crew.

How few remember “Air France Flight 4590?” American “Flight 191?” Or KLM’s “Flight 4805?”

By: Rod

Rod — Mon, 23 Jan 2023 11:37:46 +0000

Reply to Clark — Yes, I’m willing to believe (nobody Really knows) it was deliberate, & they were banking on the Soviets not daring to shoot down a 747.
The Koreans did indeed have a history of poor navigation that oddly took them over the USSR. And they were right above one of the most sensitive military areas.

By: Clark

Clark — Fri, 06 Jan 2023 06:14:39 +0000

And to chime in on the moral equivalency argument of the USS Vincennes/Iran Air 655 tragedy, in comparison to KAL 007 and MH 17, it should be noted that the US government did pay Iran restitution to the tune of some $150 million a year later, if I recall correctly, even if it did not issue a formal apology. Contrast that with the Soviet and Russian governments, respectively, lying and dissembling rather than taking any responsibility for their actions. And in the KAL case there was little doubt the fighter pilot knew he was shooting down a civilian airliner, as did his superiors who ordered it. Seems to me there is a difference in moral culpability, not an instance of American “special treatment.”

By: Clark

Clark — Fri, 06 Jan 2023 06:04:51 +0000

To Rod, years ago I read a book that promoted the conspiracy theory that KAL 007 was on a secret Cold War spying mission at the behest of the US government, and it drifted off-course deliberately in order to “light up” a new Soviet radar array that the CIA/Pentagon wanted to know about. A lot of loose strings about supposed cooperation between Korean and US CIA, a history of Korean pilots from the military, etc. No smoking gun, all circumstantial arguments, but an interesting read, if not terribly convincing.

By: Rod

Rod — Tue, 13 Dec 2022 16:27:52 +0000

Reply to Alan Dahl — No idea. But:
1) It was way up over Sakhalin Island with no available airport it could get to (presumably) & there were Soviet fighters right there intent on shooting it down. United 232 was over the US Midwest.
2) Wouldn’t those have been heat-seeking missiles, i.e. explode in or near an engine & probably irrevocably damage a wing?

MH17 was shattered with shrapnel, but that was from a huge SAM.

Question for Patrick: Does the pilot community buy the explanation that 007 was Accidentally off-course? I mean sure, that’s always possible. But KAL seemed to have a funny way of stuff like that happening.

By: Alan Dahl

Alan Dahl — Tue, 13 Dec 2022 06:50:51 +0000

Correct me on this but I thought that KAL 007 wasn’t “blown up” as such but rather shrapnel from a missile punctured the rear pressure bulkhead and severed 3 of the 4 the hydraulic lines similar to what happened with United 232 (plus the aileron crossover cable). Unfortunately the KAL crew didn’t manage the miracle that Al Haynes and his crew pulled off and lost control about 5 minutes after the missile damaged the tail area eventually resulting in an in-flight breakup.

By: Rod

Rod — Mon, 12 Dec 2022 21:39:16 +0000

Patrick: “MH17 was an error (…). They THOUGHT they were shooting at a military plane. The same with the Ukrainian 737 over Tehran a few years ago. You could argue they all were mistaken identity errors, with the possible exception of KAL 007. With that one, it’s not certain they knew they were firing at a civilian passenger jet.”

Late to the discussion but agree completely. I seriously doubt the Soviets intentionally shot down a 747 full of passengers, if for no other reason than bad publicity. Korean Airlines had a history of mighty odd “navigation errors” (this was not the first time the Soviets had shot down one of their planes) & here they were over one of the most sensitive places in the Soviet Far East.
The Soviets probably thought it was an airborne Trojan Horse.

As for MH17, the Russians were stupid not to have confessed instantly, explaining their mistake. Instead they launched a silly campaign of ever more bizarre denial.

That said, I wouldn’t rule out the whole thing being set up by the Ukrainians to run a massive burn on the Russians. Just wait for dumb-dumb Malaysia Airlines to pass over your war zone, then send in your decoy to make them fire their missile & shoot down MH17.
I have no idea whether this happened, but it’s possible.

By: Carlos Si

Carlos Si — Sat, 03 Dec 2022 19:42:46 +0000

Regarding MH17, it’s always sad to think knowing so many children were on board to have to face such a frightful, terrible fate. There’s still worse fates, slower ones (yes there’s the fall), but the shock of it actually happening in a split second also contributes…

By: Carlos Si

Carlos Si — Sat, 03 Dec 2022 19:41:07 +0000

YES. Love the airline/culture crossovers too. It really personifies the airplane and makes it represent the country it is flying for. Hawaiian and Alaska are two obvious examples. Fiji Air looks very Pacific. Aeromexico to an extent.