Comments on: Out With a Bang

By: Patrick

Patrick — Wed, 06 May 2026 22:38:51 +0000

In reply to Rory. I don’t believe there are any widebody planes in which you can see the engines from the cockpit. Normally you can’t even see the wingtips. On the A330-900 that I fly, you can just barely see the tips. On the 767, you couldn't see any part of the wing whatsoever.

By: Rory

Rory — Sun, 03 May 2026 22:05:42 +0000

Hey Patrick, the New York Times just did a piece on the Jeju crash (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2026/05/01/world/asia/jeju-air-flight-2216-crash-south-korea.html) and one thing they point out is that in a 737 (and presumably many other aircraft), you can’t actually see the engines from the cockpit – all you can see if you look bank is the wingtips.

Are there some commercial heavy aircraft where you can see engines? In the case of an emergency, wouldn’t it be useful to have a small camera on each side of the aircraft looking back at the engines to enable pilots to visually check the engine status in addition to the instruments?

By: David

David — Thu, 23 Jan 2025 16:13:08 +0000

Hi Patrick. Any updates from you in light of this video by “Pilot Debrief”? David

By: Speed

Speed — Wed, 22 Jan 2025 00:23:12 +0000

By: Loreant Sargeant

Loreant Sargeant — Sun, 19 Jan 2025 12:09:59 +0000

That was very memorable. The Jeju Air plane was landed in the wall, 750 meters next to us.

By: Robert Cassidy

Robert Cassidy — Thu, 16 Jan 2025 06:11:35 +0000

Rod and Lurk,

The Boeing 737-800 was not flying very after the bird strike?

The last four minutes of the CVR and FDR on that particular incident aircraft is missing.

In the Boeing 737NG Quick Reference Handbook (QRH) or Emergency Procedures Checklist for pedestrians
Chapter 6
approximately Page 6.2 Loss of Both Engine Driven Generators
approximately page 6.4 APU is not available
(in other words no electrical system available)
approximately page 6.7 there is this:
Note: Fully charged batteries supply a minimum of 60 minutes of standby power.
(in other words DC electrical power for some absolutely necessary systems)

“Any single electrical failure external to the recorder does not disable both the cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder.

It has an independent power source—
(i) That provides 10 ±1 minutes of electrical power to operate both the cockpit voice recorder and cockpit-mounted area microphone;
(ii) That is located as close as practicable to the cockpit voice recorder; and
(iii) To which the cockpit voice recorder and cockpit-mounted area microphone are switched automatically in the event that all other power to the cockpit voice recorder is interrupted either by normal shutdown or by any other loss of power to the electrical power bus . . .”

At 8:54 a.m., the plane was authorized to land at Muan International Airport. The flight crew were warned at 8:57 a.m. about the potential for a bird strike. The crash occurred between 9:03 and 9:07 a.m.

By: Rod

Rod — Wed, 15 Jan 2025 20:56:20 +0000

Come to think of it (& further to my post of yesterday):
Why not also a simple solid-state voice recorder powered by the same source as the rest of the aircraft’s electrical equipment but with a battery that takes over if that source stops? It would be very small (low mass, low inertia) & could be protected from extreme g-forces, heat & pressure in the same way present recorders are, only it’d be located just above the cockpit, say. It might not survive every crash, but we wouldn’t have what we seem to have way too often: oh-oh the power was cut off; gosh, too bad, eh?

By: Rod

Rod — Tue, 14 Jan 2025 22:43:38 +0000

Thanks, Lurk. I’m aware that if something relies on a power supply that’s cut, it won’t work. And electrical systems can fail, or be shut down by the crew.
But I’ve always wondered if the following wouldn’t be possible:
1) power source (battery) within the CVR that kicks in when outside power is lost;
2) power source (battery) for cockpit microphones that kicks in when outside power is lost;
3) some wireless form of transmission from cockpit to recorder that survives the disappearance of the aircraft’s electrical system.

By: Speed

Speed — Mon, 13 Jan 2025 17:56:31 +0000

From Aviation Week, January 11, 2025

Key Data Missing From Jeju Air FDR, CVR

The final 4 min. of voice and flight parameter data from the Jeju Air flight that crashed Dec. 29 was not captured on either onboard flight recorder, the South Korean Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport (MOLIT) said Jan. 11.

“We have confirmed that all data stopped recording on both devices,” a MOLIT statement said. “We plan to determine the cause of the data not being saved.”

The Boeing 737-800’s damaged flight data recorder (FDR) was sent to the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) in Washington for data extraction. The cockpit voice recorder data was extracted in Seoul, but when investigators realized some data was apparently missing, they sent the device to the NTSB for further analysis.

https://aviationweek.com/air-transport/safety-ops-regulation/key-data-missing-jeju-air-fdr-cvr?

By: Lurk

Lurk — Sun, 12 Jan 2025 20:15:05 +0000

Rod >the thing everybody was counting on to explain this disaster has failed. Is there some sort of Iron Rule of electronics…

Yes there is, but not the one you want. The iron rule is, “Without power nothing works.” That *may* be an explanation for why all the CVRs/FDRs stopped recording at exactly the same time rather than any break in connector or cabling.

*If* there was a total power failure it *might* explain why the crew tried to land the aircraft as quickly as they did.

It is just possible the two surviving crew maybe able to supply useful information but the best thing to do is to sit back and wait for the investigation to complete.