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	Comments on: Daredevil Debacles	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Curt Sampson		</title>
		<link>https://askthepilot.com/daredevil-debacles/#comment-397972</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Curt Sampson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2022 01:44:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://askthepilot.com/?p=17269#comment-397972</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Charles Lindsey writes, &quot;I’m not convinced airshows are uniquely deadly, and that’s because you haven’t shown the stats proving them to be so.&quot;

Just considering how many more orders of magnitude hours or passenger-miles of commercial aviation there are than airshow aviation, it seems a no-brainer. I&#039;m not up for doing a full calculation of this, but one can do a quick comparison of accident count by going through the &quot;List of air show accidents and incidents in the 21st century&quot; and &quot;List of accidents and incidents involving commercial aircraft&quot; pages on Wikipedia. From 2017 through the present there were 27 accidents at airshows, compared to 84 in commercial flight, of which 19 of the former and 27 of the latter produced at least one death (including passengers, crew, and airfield staff who died of injuries after the accident). I find that to be convincing evidence that air shows produce orders of magnitude more deaths (per hour or per passenger/crew-mile) than commercial flight.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Charles Lindsey writes, &#8220;I’m not convinced airshows are uniquely deadly, and that’s because you haven’t shown the stats proving them to be so.&#8221;</p>
<p>Just considering how many more orders of magnitude hours or passenger-miles of commercial aviation there are than airshow aviation, it seems a no-brainer. I&#8217;m not up for doing a full calculation of this, but one can do a quick comparison of accident count by going through the &#8220;List of air show accidents and incidents in the 21st century&#8221; and &#8220;List of accidents and incidents involving commercial aircraft&#8221; pages on Wikipedia. From 2017 through the present there were 27 accidents at airshows, compared to 84 in commercial flight, of which 19 of the former and 27 of the latter produced at least one death (including passengers, crew, and airfield staff who died of injuries after the accident). I find that to be convincing evidence that air shows produce orders of magnitude more deaths (per hour or per passenger/crew-mile) than commercial flight.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Paul S		</title>
		<link>https://askthepilot.com/daredevil-debacles/#comment-397946</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul S]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Dec 2022 17:35:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://askthepilot.com/?p=17269#comment-397946</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The bigger question I’ve always had is, what attracts businesspeople to the big civil aviation shows like Farnborough or Paris? I see the appeal of the average person wanting to see aircraft fly and to walk in and around aircraft, but what appeal are these shows to airline executives and manufacturer representatives? It’s not like they don’t have the opportunity to observe these aircraft on the flightline at an airport or to visit the manufacturer’s plant to see them, and I can’t imagine there’s much of a “geek factor” for attending an air show if you’re an executive or sales rep.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The bigger question I’ve always had is, what attracts businesspeople to the big civil aviation shows like Farnborough or Paris? I see the appeal of the average person wanting to see aircraft fly and to walk in and around aircraft, but what appeal are these shows to airline executives and manufacturer representatives? It’s not like they don’t have the opportunity to observe these aircraft on the flightline at an airport or to visit the manufacturer’s plant to see them, and I can’t imagine there’s much of a “geek factor” for attending an air show if you’re an executive or sales rep.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Paul S		</title>
		<link>https://askthepilot.com/daredevil-debacles/#comment-397945</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul S]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Dec 2022 17:25:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://askthepilot.com/?p=17269#comment-397945</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I still enjoy going to air shows, although I admittedly spend more time gawking at the military aircraft and warbirds on static display than I do watching the headliners. The sad thing is, the plots killed in this accident weren’t even performing anything particularly daring - from what’s come out so far, it sounds like for all the precautions and rules the Wings Over Dallas  organizers had, you had two aircraft trying to share the same spot, and whether it’s an air show, private aircraft at a smaller field, or airlines at a major airport, that’s never going to end well.

As far as ending the flight demonstrations? End those and you might as well do away with them entirely - without them, there’s no real draw for them except for aviation geeks like me, and I could do that at a good aviation museum. In the back of my mind, I’ve always wondered if air shows’ appeal was something Iike that for auto racing - some folks go for the thrill of seeing these beats go all out, but you find yourself wondering how many go hoping there’ll be a crash or at least a near-miss.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still enjoy going to air shows, although I admittedly spend more time gawking at the military aircraft and warbirds on static display than I do watching the headliners. The sad thing is, the plots killed in this accident weren’t even performing anything particularly daring &#8211; from what’s come out so far, it sounds like for all the precautions and rules the Wings Over Dallas  organizers had, you had two aircraft trying to share the same spot, and whether it’s an air show, private aircraft at a smaller field, or airlines at a major airport, that’s never going to end well.</p>
<p>As far as ending the flight demonstrations? End those and you might as well do away with them entirely &#8211; without them, there’s no real draw for them except for aviation geeks like me, and I could do that at a good aviation museum. In the back of my mind, I’ve always wondered if air shows’ appeal was something Iike that for auto racing &#8211; some folks go for the thrill of seeing these beats go all out, but you find yourself wondering how many go hoping there’ll be a crash or at least a near-miss.</p>
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		<title>
		By: PJ		</title>
		<link>https://askthepilot.com/daredevil-debacles/#comment-397939</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2022 09:15:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://askthepilot.com/?p=17269#comment-397939</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There can be a lot of boredom at air shows, but some great memories too e.g. the end-of-the-world roar of a Soviet Backfire doing a take-off and fly-past, also a formation of Harriers hovering above the flightline at 50 feet or so and simultaneously dipping their noses in a salute to the crowd. Both of those memories were from Farnborough. And while I&#039;m not into aerobatics, any display by the Red Arrows is memorable. I did see the Frecce Tricolori (the one involved at Ramstein) at Baldonnel (EIME) once, and they were pretty impressive too. That said, there is an annual display half an hour from where I live, but difficulties with parking and public transport make it more of a hassle than it&#039;s worth.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There can be a lot of boredom at air shows, but some great memories too e.g. the end-of-the-world roar of a Soviet Backfire doing a take-off and fly-past, also a formation of Harriers hovering above the flightline at 50 feet or so and simultaneously dipping their noses in a salute to the crowd. Both of those memories were from Farnborough. And while I&#8217;m not into aerobatics, any display by the Red Arrows is memorable. I did see the Frecce Tricolori (the one involved at Ramstein) at Baldonnel (EIME) once, and they were pretty impressive too. That said, there is an annual display half an hour from where I live, but difficulties with parking and public transport make it more of a hassle than it&#8217;s worth.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lee		</title>
		<link>https://askthepilot.com/daredevil-debacles/#comment-397925</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2022 00:59:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://askthepilot.com/?p=17269#comment-397925</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I enjoy watching the Blue Angels over Lake Washington, but the last actual airshow I enjoyed was at Joint Base Lewis McChord sometime in the late 90s. It was pretty static, as I remember, except for the paratrooper demo. But watching my kids crawl all over a Hercules made my day, and there&#039;s nothing more fun that a trip to the Museum Of Flight -- getting up close and personal with a Concorde and a B-52 is my idea of an airshow.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoy watching the Blue Angels over Lake Washington, but the last actual airshow I enjoyed was at Joint Base Lewis McChord sometime in the late 90s. It was pretty static, as I remember, except for the paratrooper demo. But watching my kids crawl all over a Hercules made my day, and there&#8217;s nothing more fun that a trip to the Museum Of Flight &#8212; getting up close and personal with a Concorde and a B-52 is my idea of an airshow.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rod		</title>
		<link>https://askthepilot.com/daredevil-debacles/#comment-397924</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rod]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2022 22:21:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://askthepilot.com/?p=17269#comment-397924</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;almost as if it were aiming for it&quot;
Yes, it reminded me of 911; it certainly *Looked* intentional.

I&#039;d do anything to go to an airshow when I was a kid. By my 20s I&#039;d seen three planes crash &#038; one skydiver die. (One of the crashes was the Tu-144 -- I simply couldn&#039;t believe what I was seeing; you know how it is.)
Maybe my very presence is a jinx.

In the past 40 years I&#039;ve rarely been to one. Not only have I seen it all before, but these things serve as a pretext for flagrant militarism. Maybe it is time to call it quits.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;almost as if it were aiming for it&#8221;<br />
Yes, it reminded me of 911; it certainly *Looked* intentional.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d do anything to go to an airshow when I was a kid. By my 20s I&#8217;d seen three planes crash &amp; one skydiver die. (One of the crashes was the Tu-144 &#8212; I simply couldn&#8217;t believe what I was seeing; you know how it is.)<br />
Maybe my very presence is a jinx.</p>
<p>In the past 40 years I&#8217;ve rarely been to one. Not only have I seen it all before, but these things serve as a pretext for flagrant militarism. Maybe it is time to call it quits.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Michael Kennedy		</title>
		<link>https://askthepilot.com/daredevil-debacles/#comment-397916</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Kennedy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2022 16:07:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://askthepilot.com/?p=17269#comment-397916</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m glad I&#039;m not the only one.  I&#039;ve been to a bunch of airshows and always felt a bit bored, although I never had the nerve to admit it to anyone. Thanks.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad I&#8217;m not the only one.  I&#8217;ve been to a bunch of airshows and always felt a bit bored, although I never had the nerve to admit it to anyone. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Vulcan with a Mullet		</title>
		<link>https://askthepilot.com/daredevil-debacles/#comment-397898</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Vulcan with a Mullet]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2022 02:45:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://askthepilot.com/?p=17269#comment-397898</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I used to like it as a kid, but honestly it just makes me sad now. I guess that&#039;s growing up. I just want the audience not to be traumatized because I realize the pilots do what they want and that&#039;s not a bad thing either.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to like it as a kid, but honestly it just makes me sad now. I guess that&#8217;s growing up. I just want the audience not to be traumatized because I realize the pilots do what they want and that&#8217;s not a bad thing either.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Edward Furey		</title>
		<link>https://askthepilot.com/daredevil-debacles/#comment-397897</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Edward Furey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2022 22:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://askthepilot.com/?p=17269#comment-397897</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Keeping the old planes flying has it&#039;s place. The RAF Battle of Britain Memorial Flight has a small fleet of WWII planes. But to the best of my knowledge, they don&#039;t perform aerobatics. The planes are simply flown by on ceremonial occassions, including over Buckingham Palace. Just seeng a Spitfire in flight is enough of a thrill. 

The most recent catastrophe was partly the result of too many planes in the air at the same time. If you look at the film, there&#039;s a B-24 a short distance from the B-17. That should never happen. 

I&#039;m a little prejudiced, I suppose, because I&#039;ve flown on a B-24 and B-17, and had scheduled a lift on a B-25 that was cancelled after the B-17 crash in Connecticut. 

I volunteer at the Cradle of Aviation Museum, so I see vintage planes in static displays all the time, and delight in them. But airplane&#039;s natural setting is the air. In &quot;Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines&quot; the rickety ancient planes on the ground are more than a little silly, but once the race begins and we see them in the air where they belong, they&#039;re grand. 

Perhaps a solution would require a far more sedate performance by the planes in the air. Limit them to basic fly-bys. Only one formation in the air at the time. No maneuving in formations. Or even no formations at all. Etc.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keeping the old planes flying has it&#8217;s place. The RAF Battle of Britain Memorial Flight has a small fleet of WWII planes. But to the best of my knowledge, they don&#8217;t perform aerobatics. The planes are simply flown by on ceremonial occassions, including over Buckingham Palace. Just seeng a Spitfire in flight is enough of a thrill. </p>
<p>The most recent catastrophe was partly the result of too many planes in the air at the same time. If you look at the film, there&#8217;s a B-24 a short distance from the B-17. That should never happen. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m a little prejudiced, I suppose, because I&#8217;ve flown on a B-24 and B-17, and had scheduled a lift on a B-25 that was cancelled after the B-17 crash in Connecticut. </p>
<p>I volunteer at the Cradle of Aviation Museum, so I see vintage planes in static displays all the time, and delight in them. But airplane&#8217;s natural setting is the air. In &#8220;Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines&#8221; the rickety ancient planes on the ground are more than a little silly, but once the race begins and we see them in the air where they belong, they&#8217;re grand. </p>
<p>Perhaps a solution would require a far more sedate performance by the planes in the air. Limit them to basic fly-bys. Only one formation in the air at the time. No maneuving in formations. Or even no formations at all. Etc.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Carlos Si		</title>
		<link>https://askthepilot.com/daredevil-debacles/#comment-397878</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Carlos Si]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Dec 2022 19:09:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://askthepilot.com/?p=17269#comment-397878</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[You&#039;re not alone. Aviation&#039;s a broad field.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re not alone. Aviation&#8217;s a broad field.</p>
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